Traveller-digest      Monday, October 11 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1192



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Spraying 'Near-c-rocks-B-gone' liberally
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
GTL 8 Starships
Re: Bigger ammo clips
Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)
Re: Jump Technology (was RE: Annic Nova)
SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Dumb on more than one front
GURPS errata
Re: Firing two guns at once
RE: Annic Nova (canon) 
Re: [none]
Re: Annic Nova
Re: Annic Nova
[none]
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection
Re: TRAVELLERS AID SOCIETY
Re: The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse
Re: Hamlet in Space
Re: GURPS errata
RE: Firing two guns at once
RE: Firing two guns at once
Re: Treaty Name 
No SWEAT!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:44:39 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Spraying 'Near-c-rocks-B-gone' liberally

Dear Folks -

Desperately trying to end this topic, Craig wrote:
>Trust me, there is *no way* to make t-plates and Imperial military history
>as stated work consistently.  A handwaved ban on near-c rocks is the only
>solution.

Last time this came up, one solution was to have an upper limit on the
speed of T-plates, the handwave being something to do with the 'plates
being affected by the star system's inertia.

That wasn't a "bad" solution, as solutions go...
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:46:20 -0400
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)

- ----------
> From: Brandon Cope <copeab@hotmail.com>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)
> Date: Monday, 11 October, 1999 12:29 PM
> 
> >From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
> >
> >The problem with missiles is that they're quite heavy and expensive >per

> >shot.  A grenade launcher is quite possibly more effective here; >you
can 
> >build nice lightweight 60mm electromagnetic grenade >launchers which
will 
> >toast BD as well.
> 
> Missiles (guided) are expensive; rockets (unguided) are cheap. 

At GTL12, it should be possible to put some fairly useful smarts into a
grenade at fairly low cost.  In GT, you probably need David Pulver's
expanded weapon rules to do this.  If the grenade is designed as a
Cannon-Launcher Guided projectile with passive millimeter-wave homing, it
gets very accurate for not much money at all (Maybe a few hundred credits).


However, as 
> you have previously pointed out, the combination of laminate and 
> thermal-superconducting armor will reduce a (10) divisor to (2.5)., so
HEAT 
> warheads are not exceptionally effective.

Thermal superconducting armor ought not have such an effect on a HEAT
round: HEAT penetration is primarily a kinetic effect, not a thermal one. 
It's a design error in GURPS:Vehicles rather than GT, but one that should
be errattaed.

Tom Schoene

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:55:29 -0400
From: "Thomas Schoene" <TomSchoene@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection (GT)

- ----------
> From: Pete <j_pete@bellsouth.net>
> 
> The problem with grenade launchers (and most ballistic weapons) is the
> launch point can be discovered using counter battery radar.
> 

At TL12+, any battlefield weapon can be detected.  It's possible to track
bullets in near-real-time right now; this should be commonplace by the 53rd
century.  Energy weapons are probably worse; fusing guns will have
signatures light a trip flare, and even x-ray lasers are going to be
detectable by the heat trace of the beam through the air.  

The question is whether it matters.  Battledress is the ultimate in
shoot-and-scoot operations.  Troopers are going to have to be rigorously
drilled to fire and move, fast.  

Tom Schoene

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:49:08 +1000
From: dadams@parracity.nsw.gov.au
Subject: GTL 8 Starships

Leonard wrote:

>What's wrong with using fission reactors?

My GTL8 starships did. The problem with GVII/GT is that the weight generally
exceeds the thrust generated by thruster plates at GTL8.

>By GTL8, they ought to be
>able to do lots better than NERVA. So you wind up with a fission
>powered rocket that can easily do single-stage to orbit carrying a
>decent cargo. The engine uses LH2, just like the jump drive.

I looked at that, GVII is a nightmare to design reaction rockets. The quick and
dirty method for a Traveller starship is CG. If you want to have reaction
thrust, there are a few GVII engine types.

>Sure, it'll spend more time in system, because it'll need to save fuel
>by boosting to escape velocity and then coasting util it hits the jump
>limit. Likewise after exiting jump, it'd boost into a transfer orbit
>and then coast until it was time to either match orbits with a highport
>or start an entry (not "re-entry" :-) burn for landing on the planet.

Which is the best reason for reaction drives in traveller. Book Keeping is a
breeze.

Darryl

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:11:04 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Bigger ammo clips

"David P. Summers" wrote:
> 
> For all of you guys with experience with military weapons...
> In a number of games I've seen players express interest in getting clips
> the hold more ammor for their guns (so they don't have change as often).
> This would seem to be relatively easy (just make them longer, they aren't
> that long right now), but if it was, it would seem likely they would
> already be made that way.  What do you guys think?

From what I've read, such things do exist for specialty applications. 
However, there are several limiting factors (these apply primarily to
handguns):

1.  The mass of the weapon equipped with the high-capacity magazine.  As
one adds ammo, one adds weight.  Eventually (especially with sidearms),
one reaches a point where the weapon is simply too heavy to handle
easily.

2.  The bulk of the high-capacity magazine.  For instance, let's suppose
that a 15-round magazine for the M9 9mm pistol is 12 cm, all of which is
contained within the pistol grip.  Adding 15 rounds, while keeping the
pistol grip the same, will add 11-12 cm to the length of the magazine,
all of which will be sticking out of the pistol grip.  At some point,
this would become unwieldly, especially when trying to draw the weapon
from the holster.

3.  The circumference of the pistol grip.  One way to ease the problems
of point #2 above is to increase the circumference (and thus the
internal volume per cm of length) of the pistol grip.  However, this
quickly hits the limit of the average human's grip (assuming that the
weapon is intended for human use).

As a rule of thumb, I'd say that you can increase the magazine capacity
by about 25-30 percent, without presenting too much of a problem, and
without modifying the pistol grip.

With rifles, a magazine much longer than the M16's 30-round magazine
will begin to interfere with one's ability to fire the weapon while
prone.  I'd say, as a quick-and-dirty guess, that an M16 magazine could
be lengthened to allow for about 50 rounds of 5.56mm ammo, without
interfering too much with the ability to fire in the prone position.

In either case, a weapon gearhead could find the absolute smallest round
capable of inflicting a given damage factor, and design a weapon to fire
it.  This would increase the number of rounds per cm^3 of magazine.  (Of
course, such a custom weapon, and its ammo, would be rather expensive,
but what price peace of mind?)

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:18:54 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)

At 08:17 AM 10/10/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> > With proper camouflage, back lit isn't the problem.  It's what happens if
>> > the see the rifle in your hands, or get a reflection off your glasses...
>> 
>> I was thinking more of the fact that your silhoutte doesn't look a
>> whole lot like a tree, bush, or rock. Especially with that rifle in
>> your hands. :-)
>
>Actually (remember, Doug was  a sniper) in proper camoflage, what he looked
>like was a rather skinny shambling mound.
>
>With glasses. ;-)
>
>Bruce

        ROTFL!

        --Michel
        (who got to play shambling-mound bait for a weekend a few years ago...)

        
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
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	"Reality Error in Progress....
			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:21:28 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Jump Technology (was RE: Annic Nova)

At 10:09 AM 10/10/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>> I have my TU explanations of how jump space works, and I would be
>> interested in seeing how others have defined theirs.
>
>The best techno-babble I've read is on the Near Earth Campaign. I can
>totally suspend by disbelief with that bit of history/jargon.
>
        Wow.  Thats an accolade.  Thanks much, Ben*.

        --Michel
        (The TNEC Guy)

        
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
				ICQ # 31172292
	"Reality Error in Progress....
			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
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	Into Traveller?  Check Out:
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:26:12 +1000
From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Dumb on more than one front

A)	Apologies for including the post in the message, second time I've
done that. I am now taking off the auto-reply function
B)	For talking about stuff I don't know (RE SWATs and guns)
C)	I drove that fiat uno....


Michael 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:17:44 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: GURPS errata

Has anyone else on the list noticed that the Ine Givar pictured on page 39 of GT
can't spell their own name?
Is this a boob?
_______________________________________________
If at first you don't succeed, DON'T try Russian Roulette.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:26:14 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

At 11:27 AM 10/10/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>> I write, draw, paint,
>> etc... with my left hand. I throw, swing a bat, shoot a gun, dribble a
>> basketball and do just about everything else right handed. It was never
>> conscious, it just sort of happened that way.
>
>And I thought I was an oddity. ;) 

        You are.  He and I are worse.  =)

>Can't really call your characteristic
>"ambidextrous", and it doesn't sound like somebody forced you to use your
>off-hand. Could it be based on fine dexterity vs gross agility?
>

        That is my experience.  Amongst other games I play, I am a fencer.
I also dabble in a MA that sims Middle Ages English broadsword and sheild
fighting.  I am "supposed" to be right handed.  I play raquet ball and fence
right handed.  I pitch softball and swing sword left handed.  I write with
my right, and heft with my left.  I call it adaptive ambidexterity....

        --Michel

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 20:29:15 -0400
From: "Paul Schirf" <Paul@Schirf.com>
Subject: RE: Annic Nova (canon) 

Justifying the Annic Nova's lack of J-Fuel was done in my game by making the
so called "solar panels" something else...  The huge black sail is not
collecting "energy", it's collecting the stuff of jump space that bleeds
into normal space at the 100d limit.  The ships special capacitors are able
to store this and use it to punch the ship into Jump Space.

Comments?

Paul Schirf
Paul@Schirf.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:33:37 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: [none]

>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
...
>>And I thought I was an oddity. ;) Can't really call your characteristic
>>"ambidextrous", and it doesn't sound like somebody forced you to use your
>>off-hand. Could it be based on fine dexterity vs gross agility?
>
>tis referred to as "Mixed Dominant Handedness" by the researchers...

  I assumed that it was learned (from examples) behaviour - I'm left-
handed for writing and catching baseballs, and right for basically
everything else (including batting & long-arms). I don't know what the
hell I'd do with a pistol if I picked it up absent-mindedly*.

  *hopefully check that it was safe :) 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:33:45 -0700
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>Subject: Re: Annic Nova
...
>>   And that's at something fairly close to 0% efficiency, as any GURPs
>> SF person will be happy to mention - endlessly...  :)
>
>Nah, this debate predates GT by quite a bit.  That 400 tons of fuel is
potentially 2-3 tons of energy, or about 2e+20 joules, if fused efficiently.
Since there's nothing 

  I recall Costikyan's attack in an old Space Gamer; it's rather easy to
get ugly results with farcical assumptions.

  But that's OK, `cuz TNE solved it all so gracefully with Heplar :>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

Steven Hudson writes:

>   But that's OK, `cuz TNE solved it all so gracefully with Heplar :>

As HEPlaR has roughly the exhaust velocity as if it were achieving 100% efficiency fusion on it's power input, and does it even faster than the 30-day time, I'm not sure if I call it a 'graceful' option.  More like replacing one handwave with another.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:44:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net>
Subject: [none]

>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:21:39 -0700
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>Subject: Bigger ammo clips
>
>For all of you guys with experience with military weapons...
>In a number of games I've seen players express interest in getting clips
>the hold more ammor for their guns (so they don't have change as often).
>This would seem to be relatively easy (just make them longer, they aren't
>that long right now), but if it was, it would seem likely they would
>already be made that way.  What do you guys think?

Note: I'm not a firearms expert... but I am a gun-toting firearms
enthusiast....

Past a certain size, clip design has to change to maintain action. This
varies by weapon, clip design, and sometimes even casing material of the
round.

ForEx: The m1911 .45 Cal ACP, standard load 7 round clip. You can put 7
rounds in, and expect enough pressure to feed the 7th, and not too much to
feed the 1st. Switch to the commercial 11 round "Extended Mag" for the same
gun... On less expensive ones, they are really 10 round clips, as with 11
rounds they often either don't feed the 11th round (not enough pressure),
or won't release the 1st of 11 (Too much). You have to design the clip's
spring such that with 11 rounds it doesn't overpressure, and on round 11
still gets enough to feed, and yet can hold that tension for a duration.

The Thompson SMG likewise has feed problems with odd clips...20 round
sticks were common enough, and 30 round sticks were available... but past
there, you switched to drum or (with enough modifications) other feeds...
simply because the coils springs of the drum provide a more even feed
pressure, and are more easily wielded than 40 or 50 round "Sticks". (By
stick, it refers to a stright clip). Note also that the Thompson fires the
same round as the m1911, but uses different clips... the thompson clip,
IIRC is straight, while the .45ACP slants.

In theory, you can built a drum mag for almost anything... reliability may
be an issue.

Oh, and the 30 round clips for the M16 also have a reccomendation of not
carrying more than 25 in them... so as not to compress the spring too much
for too long.

Also of note: many military weapon ammo sometimes ships on stripper clips,
for stripping into detachable magazines, rather than for feeding internals.
It was really a pain to reload M-16 clips from strippers, since the number
of rounds per stripper clip was different than the load we were ordered to
put per clip... in fact we were putting some 2 2/3 stripper clips into each
fireable clip....

For caseless weapons, the issue becomes quite different... most caseless
designs I've seen use "Bricks"; if the weapon only takes a 200 round brick,
there is no place for more... (I've never gotten a good close look at any
caseless weapons proper, only at specs...)

William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click
interface!"
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-
533
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis http://www.alaska.net/~mhaa
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:47:48 -0400
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection

>Traveller's Battledress is a suit of powered armour, ala Heinlein's
>_Starship Troopers_ or Haldeman's _Forever War_.  Man sized, with human
>limbs going into the suit's limbs.

"A suit isn't a space suitalthough it can serve as one.
It is not primarily armoralthough the Knights of the Round Table were not
armored as well as we are. It isn't a tankbut a single M.I. private could
take on a squadron of those things and knock them off unassisted if anybody
was silly enough to- put tanks against M I. A suit it not a ship but it can
fly, a littleon, the other hand neither spaceship nor atmosphere craft can
fight against a man in a suit except by saturation bombing of the area he is
in (like burning down a house to get one flea!)."

						--Starship Troopers copyright by Robert A Heinlein

Obviously Battledress as invisioned by Heinliein is quite a bit more
powerful than as specified by (some) Traveller adherents.

Terry C

All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:12:02 -0400
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: TRAVELLERS AID SOCIETY

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Kagehira@aol.com>
>     As part of it's membership service, The Travellers Aid Society is now
> accepting ads that might be useful to it's members.
>
>     Ads cost 3Cr per word. Thumbnail graphics 100Cr, 1/4 screen graphics
cost
> 500Cr, 1/2 screen 1000Cr, full Screen cost 2000 Cr.

Huh?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:18:42 -0400
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse

>Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 11:53:03 -0600
>From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net>
>Subject: Re: The Four Flamewars of the Apocalypse
>
>>I've just lost two keyboards in a matter of minuets. Stop it please
>>you killing me.
>
>	I'm not even going to touch the question of why you're dancing with
>keyboards ...

"Soon he will learn our wars..."

Chief Golden-DJ, _Dances_with_Keyboards_ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:32:46 +1000
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: Hamlet in Space

Dear Folks -

[This appears to have vanished into the ether (if not, sorry for the
repost):]

Norris (Henry V) in the Inthe Pocket:

"Once more unto the breach, dear Travellers, once more,
Or close the wall up with our Imperial dead.
In peace, there's nothing so becomes a man,
As modest stillness and humility.
But when the blast of the Fifth Frontier War blows in our ears,
Then imitate the actions of a tree kraken,
Stiffen the sinews and summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage."

Doug, you need to add a new section to Silly Traveller right away!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 02:33:37 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: GURPS errata

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:17:44 +1000, Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:

>
>
>Has anyone else on the list noticed that the Ine Givar pictured on page 39 of GT
>can't spell their own name?
>Is this a boob?
>_______________________________________________
>If at first you don't succeed, DON'T try Russian Roulette.

Graffiti "artists" are rarely good spellers. ;-)


================================================================================
- - Pete                                                      j_pete@bellsouth.net

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."
                                                    -George Washington

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V- PS-- 
PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
NOG #74   Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:35:20 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Firing two guns at once

There's always that ;)
Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Rupert
> Boleyn
> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 9:23 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: RE: Firing two guns at once
>
>
> On 9 Oct 99, at 17:21, Jesse DeGraff wrote:
>
> > Right on, brother!
> >
> > Jesse
>
> > > As a former Army pistol team member and long-time combat
> > > USPSA-IPSC shooter it
> > > makes no sense to fire a pistol in each hand unless you like
> > > wasting alot of
> > > ammo. The chances of actually hitting your target is low, maybe
> > > 20% and that's
> > > if you're experienced.. Only an rank amateur or movie rambo would
> > > ever do this.
> > > It makes more sense to buy a high quality carry weapon and
> load up with
> > > additional magazines for the same amount of weight. If you want volume
> > > get a submachine gun like an MP5K.
> > >
> > > Alex Ingram
> > >
> > >
>
> As a former grunt I say use an assault rifle (or better yet SAW) and be
> done.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:36:47 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Firing two guns at once

OUCH!!
Jesse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Rupert
> Boleyn
> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 9:23 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: RE: Firing two guns at once
>
>
> On 9 Oct 99, at 16:49, Jesse DeGraff wrote:
>
> > Unless you're shooting a SPAS-12 one handed, which has almost no recoil.
> > You just have to have a pretty strong arm to raise that 10
> pound beast :)
>
> Nah, just an old side-by-side that weighed nearly nothing. It was quite
> a weird sensation - I could actually feel all the joints in my wrist
> squash down and spring back out again. It didn't hurt at the time, but
> my wrist ached for a couple of days.
>
>
> --
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:36:21 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Treaty Name 

> "Strategic Wisecrack Elimination/Attenuation Treaty"
> 
> SWEAT

So when I say 'no sweat' to somebody, this means I reject the treaty?

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 02:42:25 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: No SWEAT!

On Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:36:21 -0400, "Keven R. Pittsinger"
<jamstar@accesstoledo.com> wrote:

>> "Strategic Wisecrack Elimination/Attenuation Treaty"
>> 
>> SWEAT
>
>So when I say 'no sweat' to somebody, this means I reject the treaty?
>
>Keven

Fight the peacenik power mongers! You can't control me man!

Where's my camouflage nehru jacket?


================================================================================
- - Pete                                                      j_pete@bellsouth.net

"To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace."
                                                    -George Washington

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
- -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V- PS-- 
PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
NOG #74   Nova 700

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1192
***********************************

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